70 myths of losing salvation (67): If we deny Jesus, he will deny us. Part 1

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Myth 67. Forsake the Lord and be consumed

Deu 31:16; And the LORD said to Moses: “You are going to rest with your fathers, and these people will soon prostitute themselves to the foreign gods of the land they are entering. They will forsake me and break the covenant I made with them.

Jos 24:20; If you forsake the LORD and serve foreign gods, he will turn and bring disaster on you and make an end of you, after he has been good to you.”

1Ch 28:9; “And you, my son Solomon, acknowledge the God of your father, and serve him with wholehearted devotion and with a willing mind, for the LORD searches every heart and understands every motive behind the thoughts. If you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever.

2Ch 15:2; He went out to meet Asa and said to him, “Listen to me, Asa and all Judah and Benjamin. The LORD is with you when you are with him. If you seek him, he will be found by you, but if you forsake him, he will forsake you.

Wow that is a mouthful. It does seem on the 1st reading if we deny or forsake the Lord, he will forsake us. I have always been asked what if I deny Jesus or I leave the faith, will I go to hell? After Jesus did say,  “if you deny me, I will deny you before my Father”.

Matthew 10:32-33

New International Version (NIV)

32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven .33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.

Does this passage means that if I deny Christ, I can lose my salvation? Does it mean if I reject him he will reject us?

What about then the passage in 2 Timothy 2:12 where in says “If we endure, we will rule with him. If we disown him, he will disown us.”

If you note very carefully, 2 Timothy 2:12 is to be read together as a whole with verses 11-13.

See  “11 The saying is sure and worthy of confidence: If we have died with Him, we shall also live with Him.

12 If we endure, we shall also reign with Him. If we deny and disown and reject Him, He will also deny and disown and reject us.

13 If we are faithless [do not believe and are untrue to Him], He remains true (faithful to His Word and His righteous character), for He cannot deny Himself.”

Note verse 11 says verses 11-13 is a complete saying. You cannot read the verse independently of the other.

I have heard many people arguing that the verse is verse 12 saying that it just means “if we deny Jesus, he will deny our denial of him”. I am …. err not very convinced about it. Nevertheless, it must be noted verse 12 must be read together with verse 13, Jesus CANNOT deny HIMSELF.

Note He clearly sees us as HIMSELF. Hence the question beckons why verse 12? I had been asking the Spirit for the reason and BAM! I saw it. You can actually see it from the verses quoted (which is quoted at the beginning of the article) by smashingidols in his blog: http://smashingidols7.wordpress.com/2011/02/12/70-ways-a-believer-can-fall-away/

Look at all the verses again now….

Deu 31:16; And the LORD said to Moses: “You are going to rest with your fathers, and these people will soon prostitute themselves to the foreign gods of the land they are entering. They will forsake me and break the covenant I made with them.

Jos 24:20; If you forsake the LORD and serve foreign gods, he will turn and bring disaster on you and make an end of you, after he has been good to you.”

1Ch 28:9; “And you, my son Solomon, acknowledge the God of your father, and serve him with wholehearted devotion and with a willing mind, for the LORD searches every heart and understands every motive behind the thoughts. If you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever.

2Ch 15:2; He went out to meet Asa and said to him, “Listen to me, Asa and all Judah and Benjamin. The LORD is with you when you are with him. If you seek him, he will be found by you, but if you forsake him, he will forsake you.

Notice that the worthy saying is quoting the Old Testament? The very effect of the Law? “If you forsake me I will forsake you?”

Yet in the worthy saying, an additional line is added, “if we remain faithless, He remains true (faithful to His Word and His righteous character), for He cannot deny Himself.”

This means “there is now an additional element to the Law, it is this. Christ!” We are in Christ and He cannot deny Himself. He cannot deny you. Verse 12 as such states the position before, verse 13 states the position NOW [after the cross].

The following is for those who want more. So if you are in for theological jargon here goes….

“Reconciliation should take the context of the whole hymn (structure resembles hymns that were sung in first century church) from vv.11-13, which basically proclaims the unchanging character of God and how we “could be” affected by it.

These are premises assumed in the hymn where we can draw out the immutability and faithfulness of God. They are not prophetic in the sense that we will or are at risk of doing those things – deny Christ and become faithless in the sin of unbelief. They only assumed such a premise for discussion to arrive at the outcome (apodosis).

It’s like saying if you drive 100 mph to negotiate that corner, you will surely hit the tree and die. This assumed premise is true in every sense of the end result (apodosis) but does it mean you WILL do it (unless you are high on drugs or suicidal)? Likewise, if we deny Christ, of course He will deny us for how can He save those who reject Him as Savior? Does that mean you will or want to deny Him? Or does it motivate a believer to endure like Paul in v.10? On the contrary, the hymn serves as a warning to those who are tempted or being persecuted to deny Christ to which the early church understood well enough in martyrs like Ignatius who were fed to the lions in Rome’s Colosseum, Polycarp, Cyprian and Justin who were beheaded, Origen tortured to death ……… and the list continues in the 21st Century.

It is interesting to note that “deny” (v.12b) takes the future tense on both the prostasis and apodosis (God will also deny) as opposed to the present tense in “endure” (v.12a).””

Now if you don’t understand what has just been said, it simply means verse 12 is a hypothetical situation, and not a reality.

Here comes the million dollar question…”if a man denies Jesus and becomes a Moslem, is he still saved?” My answer is this, If he is really in Christ and has had the faith once, “yes”.

This is because you cannot come “in”to Christ and “out of Christ” on your own. It is none of your doing.  Once you are in, you are in. You cannot get out by confession. The meaning of “being a new creation” means you are no longer of Adam. That means there is no more past in you. Your past is gone in the Spiritual Realm. I am no longer the son of Mr. Yap. I have no more human history. My history is the history of Jesus. My father is no longer Mr. Yap. My Father is Yahweh, the God of Israel.  I am now in Christ. Now imagine if I deny Jesus, can I go back to my past? Of course not!  I and Jesus are now one. Hence even if I am faithless, HE CANNOT DENY (note, not me) HIMSELF.

Something wonderful has happen, I no longer have a human history. I have a divine history. The verses in the old testament to say “if I forsake God, then He will forsake me” now is supplemented by:

“Hebrews 13:5

5 God has said,

“Never will I leave you;
never will I forsake you.”

Don’t believe me? Ask Simon Peter, who denied him 3 times.

Now what about the passage in Matthew?  Stay tune. I will let you know tomorrow.

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For those of you who are new, these series of articles are dedicated to refuting the teaching that a believer can lose its salvation. I am using a reference of 70 ways a believer can fall away from a blogger who name himself smashing idols.

(His full article is here: http://smashingidols7.wordpress.com/2011/02/12/70-ways-a-believer-can-fall-away/

Also you can follow the refutes of his 70 ways here by just click to this link:https://hischarisisenough.wordpress.com/tag/70-ways-to-lose-your-salvation/)

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8 thoughts on “70 myths of losing salvation (67): If we deny Jesus, he will deny us. Part 1

  1. I really enjoyed this article and it deffintley makes sense so thank you Simon, I’ve been reading Matthew and I know were saved by grace through faith and not by works but it Jesus says in Matthew 24:13 and in other places of the bible, “the one who endures to the end, he will be saved” doesn’t this contradict saved by grace and not works if we have to maintain our own salvation and what does it mean not to endure. I know there are no contradictions in the bible so this is some what confusing to me?

    • Chase the passage talks about the reconciliation of the people of Israel at the last days. Not the Gentiles.

    • Hello Bro. Simon! I have also been scrolling through your blogs and they’ve been a bit re-assuring on Eternal Security. But I have a few questions which seem troubling. I wanted to ask if I could contact you via e-mail? I tried searching around your website for it but it seems that I cannot locate it. If it be alright with you, could we speak via e-mail?

  2. An example that can also debinked this myth is to look at Peter during the night before cruxifiction. He denied Jesus 3x but after the resurrection, we see Jesus not denying Peter. Why is that? In Christ He does not condemn you or deny you.He accepts you and love you.

  3. Pingback: I feel like giving up... - Page 3 - Christian Forums

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